Why Doctors Make Exceptional Founders (And How to Start Small) with Dr. Osama Hashmi

What does it really take for a physician to build a successful health tech company—without abandoning clinical medicine?

In this episode of Startup Physicians, Dr. Alison Curfman sits down with Dr. Osama Hashmi, dermatologist, entrepreneur, and CEO of Empiricus, to unpack his unconventional journey from pre-med student to multi-time founder.

Osama shares how early exposure to healthcare policy, liability, and system inefficiencies sparked a deeper curiosity—not just about treating patients, but about changing the systems that shape patient care.

In this episode, we explore:

• Why understanding the problem matters more than understanding technology
• How Osama started his first company before medical school—with no entrepreneurial background
• The myth that physicians must quit medicine to build startups
• Why starting with manual solutions often leads to better technology later
• The difference between services-based businesses and tech startups
• How Empiricus is rethinking physician–pharma communication
• Why founders bring optimism to a healthcare system facing rapid change
• Practical, low-risk ways physicians can explore entrepreneurship today

This conversation is especially valuable for physicians who feel curious—but unsure—about business, startups, or innovation. Osama breaks down complex ideas into approachable, actionable insights and reminds us that you don’t need to be technical, fearless, or all-in to get started.

“Entrepreneurship doesn’t mean leaving medicine. It means using business as a tool to solve real problems.”

Chapters:

00:00 – From Med School Dreams to System-Level Questions

02:55 – Why Business & Capital Drive Real Change in Healthcare

04:35 – Starting a Company Before Medical School

06:45 – How Physicians Actually Get Started in Entrepreneurship

08:40 – Physicians Are Closer to the Real Problems Than Anyone Else

10:55 – Start Manual, Then Add Technology

14:55 – Services vs Tech: Choosing the Right Business Model

15:25 – The Vision Behind Empiricus & DocUpdate

17:30 – Free E-Prescribing & Physician-Centered Tools

19:00 – Why Physician Communities Matter More Than Ever

21:05 – Founders Think Differently About the Future of Medicine

24:45 – You Don’t Have to Quit Medicine to Be an Entrepreneur

26:20 – Practical Advice for Doctors Curious About Startups

28:10 – Building Teams vs Being the Best Individual Performer

Resources & Links

• Impiricus – Ethical pharma–physician engagement ImpiricusHome
• DocUpdate App – Free e-prescribing & physician tools (iOS & Android) DocupdateHome
• Connect with Dr. Osama Hashmi – LinkedinOsama Hashmi MD MPH - Impiricus | LinkedIn
• Startup Physicians Programs & Community – startupphysicians.com

Transcript

Alison Curfman (00:01.098)
Hi everyone, welcome back to Startup Physicians. This is your host, Dr. Alison Curfman, and I am here with Dr. Osama Hashmi. He is a dermatologist turned founder who I met at the health conference and was so impressed with the products he's been building and his story. So Osama, thank you so much for joining me today.

Osama Hashmi MD MPH (00:23.756)
Yeah, thanks for, thank you for having me.

Alison Curfman (00:26.272)
So we talked about this before we started recording, but one of the things I really like to highlight is how did you even get to the point of being a founder and running a tech company? And I'd love if you could just walk us through a little bit about your background, your training, and when this started taking root.

Osama Hashmi MD MPH (00:44.556)
Yeah, for sure. So in high school is really when I knew that I wanted to become a physician. I got to shadow an oncologist, just, you know, fell in love with the patient interactions, the vulnerability that people have, the ability to really help someone with their life in a very important stage. And so knew that that was what I wanted to have my career doing. But I also had this really unique experience as I shouted him that there was a time that he was in the hospital, he was ordering a test for a patient. He told me, you know, I know this test is going to be negative.

but I'm gonna order it anyways because there's this liability associated with it if I don't order it. And I thought that was like a really interesting kind of point that he made of how this whole ecosystem works beyond just what the doctor thinks is best for the patients around the legal system, it's around what insurance wants, it's around all these other things. And so going into college, I knew I wanted to be a physician. I also found those questions to be extremely interesting to me, more so than the of the wet lab research questions.

And so in college, I was really fortunate to be able to focus a lot of my research and time in healthcare around kind of these ecosystem questions. And so my first summer in college, I worked for a law firm that was suing Medicare, which was a really great experience. I also then the next summer worked for the Greater New York Hospital Association, which is a giant kind of hospital lobbying organization, but also group purchasing organization in New York. And this was right when the Affordable Care Act was being passed. And so my first couple of years of college, was

All right, I'm gonna be a physician. I'm gonna be really, really involved with policy. And so I'm from Georgia. And at that time, there was a lot of debate around Medicaid expansion. And so I worked with a bunch of different groups and policy makers and talked around Medicaid expansion. Eventually, Medicaid expansion was not passed in Georgia. And I found, okay, this is actually like an interesting problem because there's obviously some clear benefits to doing it. And there's some clear political drawbacks and reasons why it's not being done. And for me,

I didn't really like that. I didn't like that, you know, the effect of what I wanted to build or what I wanted to have on my peers and on my patients would be affected by, you know, the political tailwinds of the time. And so my time at the New York Hospital Association was really interesting because I worked, obviously, on the policy end, but they had a lot of influence. And the reason they had a lot of influence is because they had this group purchasing organization. So they had, there was a lot of capital that was flowing through the hospital association in terms of the equipment they were buying and all this other stuff.

Osama Hashmi MD MPH (03:07.414)
And that's where they were able to affect a lot of really fast change and a lot of impactful change at scale. And so that was my first introduction of, all right, if I want to be a physician, I want to have change and I want to do it in the way that I think it should be done. Then, especially here in America, the way to do that is through thinking about capital flow. It's around thinking about business. It's around thinking about kind of entrepreneurship. And so my junior year in college, I spent a summer at Stanford doing AI research. I knew nothing about AI and I came out of that experience knowing a little bit.

but enough kind of confidence to say, I'm going to start my first company. So I started my first company actually in my senior year in college, patient engagement solutions for hospital systems, a normal first kind of founder idea, which is hospitals want to take care of patients outside of the hospital. And so let's build some digital solutions for that. Quickly ran into a whole bunch of different issues around fundraising, around building that company, selling to customers, the whole questions around reimbursement. Learned a lot of hard lessons that way.

We ended up selling that company to one of our customers. I then went on to medical school and then in residency saw this really unique opportunity in terms of building Empiricus. And so happy to talk a little bit more in terms of Empiricus, DocUpdate, all this stuff that we've been building so far and the team that we've built. But my journey is kind of this kind of twisted journey of thinking about that first question that came up in my head of like, why are we ordering this lab test to, you know, working on Capitol Hill, advocating for policy in Georgia, starting my own companies and then now.

being the CEO of Empiricus.

Alison Curfman (04:37.404)
So that is not a normal pathway. Most people who were a senior in college and applying to medical school were not like, hey, you know what I should do? I'm gonna start a company. What do you think urge you to do that? were you surrounded by mentors? Like I wouldn't have had the slightest idea how to start a company or raise capital at that age or at that stage in my life. And I actually...

Osama Hashmi MD MPH (04:40.354)
Yeah.

Alison Curfman (05:05.787)
even feel like a lot of physicians listening now would be like, I wouldn't know how to do that right now. What sort of influences did you have around you that you think urged you in that direction?

Osama Hashmi MD MPH (05:14.734)
Yeah, it's actually a really interesting question because it was kind of two different things I think that are that was important for me to reflect on. One is at the University of Georgia, I was part of kind of the honors program and a scholarship program called the Foundation Fellowship with some amazing peers who are getting into all these top medical schools. And I was always a great student, but not always the best student. And so I found myself looking at my peers saying, all right, they're doing amazing things with their lives.

kind of following the traditional path into medical school, I don't find a lot of joy in terms of wet lab research. I find a lot of joy in terms of trying to answer these other questions. And so it was my senior year of college, I was applying to medical school, my club commitments and everything were then down. And I felt like, all right, I have this year of my life to do whatever I want to do. So let me go try to solve these problems the way that I want to do it. And the quickest, easiest way, fastest way, it was definitely not the easiest way, but the fastest in my head was.

this idea of starting a company with the idea that, you worst case, it doesn't work out. But at this, at the same time, I wanted to do something that I felt like would be something I would be really excited about that I want to kind of be thinking about 24 seven, which was around building companies and trying to affect change that way.

Alison Curfman (06:26.631)
Did you have entrepreneurs in your family or mentors that were entrepreneurs?

Osama Hashmi MD MPH (06:30.522)
I didn't. I was very much a black sheep amongst like my peers, in college amongst my family. Like it was, it was.

Alison Curfman (06:37.638)
Were you reading books about, mean, what gave you, I mean, it sounds like you were very motivated and inspired, but there's still like requirements of creating a business plan and finding capital and all of that. How did you do that?

Osama Hashmi MD MPH (06:51.138)
Yeah, it's a great point. So I was naturally drawn towards like different podcasts around entrepreneurship is probably similar to, you know, startup physicians. And I was also reading different books, like one is a really good book zero to one by Peter Thiel. I was really also fortunate that at the University of Georgia in Athens, there was like a really cool little startup incubator startup ecosystem that was there. And so they actually had a website on meetup.com where they just met once a month.

And it was developers and I posted on that website saying, hey, I'm a student. I have an idea. Can I just like come and talk to people? And they were like, no one's ever done this before, but sure, come and give a presentation. So I went and I gave a 10 minute presentation around, you I see these issues in hospitals. I think we can be building stuff to fix it. And, you know, got people were excited. And I think that's actually something really unique that it's worthwhile for physicians to think about, even if we don't understand technology or even that startup ecosystem.

We oftentimes are so attached to really real problems that are affecting people on a day-to-day basis, right? Everyone knows that healthcare is really expensive. Everyone knows healthcare is super efficient. Everyone has personal stories around when they or a family member went to the hospital and things were just horrible in terms of experience. And so everyone's really passionate about that, but nobody really understands the problems that well of like why it's that case. But as a physician, we know day-to-day we go in and we see like, all right, this is why I'm doing this thing. This is why this is happening here. And yes, there could be a better way.

We may not have the tools from a technology or fundraising standpoint to fix them, but we do understand the problems. And I think that's actually like probably the most important piece of entrepreneurship is really understanding that problem. Because once you can articulate that problem, a lot of people jump in to help. So they're in Athens, Georgia, talked about this problem and got a lot of support from developers who are saying, this is amazing. I'd love to build the first vision with you to investors who are saying, all right, great. We'd love to fund this. And this is how we'd love to help you. So kind of got a lot of support once I started the journey that

Alison Curfman (08:46.843)
That's so cool. I agree with you and say this all the time, that physicians have a very unique set of expertise. It's not just that we once learned the Krebs cycle, which I don't remember that. We do have a deep expertise in our medical knowledge of our unique specialty background, but we also have a really good understanding of how the system works and what makes things go and what makes things not work.

I think that you're right that any business, the most important starting point is that you're solving the right problem. And I see a lot of startups that aren't necessarily solving the right problem. Like they maybe see a piece of the problem, but not the root cause. And they're building for something that may not end up being, you know, the right solution because you didn't start with the right problem. So I think I completely agree with you that physicians have a very unique perspective that they can

used to both be a founder like you are and find ways to create solutions for the problems that you live day in and day out, but also really informing other companies that are trying to solve problems. Like, do things actually work in the health care system? Because you get a lot of people that have more of a business background or more of tech background, and they really want to solve these problems. But they're very, very, very interested in getting this deep clinical perspective.

Osama Hashmi MD MPH (10:14.426)
100%. And I also think that sometimes people think that you need to solve something really, really big, like I need to go build a new EMR or I need to go start a new hospital. When in reality, a lot of the day-to-day problems that we see as physicians are actually big, big problems from like a monetary basis or patient care basis. And so even starting with something super small, and there's so many examples of small things that we see our day-to-day practice, are all things that could become companies or could help a company think about their next step.

And so the smallest thing in medicine oftentimes has the biggest impact. And so I think for a lot of physicians, it's not that idea that you need to go start the next Facebook. It's can you use business as a tool to solve a small problem in your practice? And you'll find that that actually ends up becoming a big deal for everyone else.

Alison Curfman (10:59.288)
Yeah, and the physicians that I train in my course, I have them start by identifying what are some of the problems in your practice that affect your patients and that you think are worth solving because that ends up being the starting point for our searching and strategic networking because there are people out there trying to solve those problems.

I have an incubator program and I work with a number of physicians that are like you that maybe don't have a deep technical background, but have an idea for a technology solution. And so I like to highlight on this podcast, like how you overcame that. And it sounds like you had some developers that were interested in helping you. And I have tried to share with people that there's actually a lot of people.

get this idea that like, well, if I ever wanted to make that, I would have to pay, you know, 50, 60, a hundred thousand dollars to build a tech product on my own. And then I would be taking this huge risk. And there's actually a lot of different pathways to build tech. mean, you could bring on a technical co-founder or partner. could, there's firms like third party firms that build for equity. So if you pitch to them, their, your, your idea, you could actually get a firm to, to dedicated development team to.

to build your prototype and they trade it for like a small piece of equity. There's a lot of different ways to approach it. I'm curious to know how you now multiple times over have built technology, because I'm assuming you're not the one sitting there coding it.

Osama Hashmi MD MPH (12:36.846)
Yeah, for sure. technology is like an interesting word because in reality, the first technology was like when we invented the wheel and made fire and then now it's, you know, everything about that moved to mobile and internet and then now everything's about AI. But in reality, like technology is a tool. And so what I when I'm investing in companies, when we're starting things even at Empiricus, we have, you know, amazing teams of developers. I oftentimes try to solve problems are super manually in the beginning.

I think there's two really important reasons to do that. One is if you can solve it manually, you can always make it better in the future with technology. But two, when you're trying to solve a problem, you're really trying to like test an hypothesis. You're trying to say like, does this matter? Is this solvable? In very rare cases in healthcare, do you actually like need a next breakthrough technology to actually do something? What you oftentimes need is just like better coordination, better planning, you know, working with different pieces of the ecosystem together.

And so a lot of the companies that I started and I've invested in, they start off with like a Google sheet of someone writing something down and collaborating with someone else. And yes, you have to go get potentially a HIPAA compliant version, you know, get the Google admin, but you know, getting HIPAA compliant, no code tools are ways to do it. Talking to people in the beginning, that's like the simplest way is just like, all right, I'm on the phone, I'm figuring this stuff out. I'm writing it down on paper.

If you can solve that problem, you can always automate it with technology later. But solving that problem is the most important piece because as you solve it, you also realize like, why does this problem exist? you thought that it was because like it was a payment issue? No, it's actually because of this other issue. And that's going to be like the biggest thing. The mistake I see a lot of physicians make is have some ginormous idea, invest hundreds of thousands of dollars into it. And then they realize like that's not even the right problem. And so the best way to start solving a problem is just use pen and paper, try to do it yourself.

And then the technology becomes very clear in terms of how technology can make it better. The other piece I would say as well is healthcare and company building in general. There's kind of like two types of businesses. There's services-based businesses. Those are people-based businesses and there's technology businesses. A lot of very successful companies in healthcare are services-based businesses where they're using call centers, they're using lots of different people, sometimes overseas, to accomplish solving a problem. Just would say you don't need to go and

Osama Hashmi MD MPH (14:53.698)
kind of spend millions of dollars and hire an entire AI team to solve every single problem. A lot of problems can be solved with people and with manual processes and scale up that way. And it also depends a little bit in terms of like the type of company you're trying to build and what your end outcome is. But yeah, we'll definitely start with problem first, manual process first, validate that that can be solved and then it's easy to add tech on later.

Alison Curfman (15:15.809)
That's awesome. Well, now I'd love to hear a little bit more about the vision and the mission behind the organization that you most recently built. I know I have been a user of one of your products. So can you share a little bit about Empiricus and where that came from?

Osama Hashmi MD MPH (15:32.588)
Yeah, for sure. Impiricus is really simple, which is that pharma companies have spent a lot of time just spamming doctors and spending billions of dollars just really spamming doctors and creating so much noise in the ecosystem. But unfortunately, there's oftentimes a lot of times where we can benefit or a patient can benefit from knowing something that the pharma company has. And there's so many cases in terms of clinical practice. You have a brand in medicine and you actually need to send it to a certain pharmacy in order for that patient to get it for free.

Sometimes we'll send a medicine in and then the patient comes three months later and they don't have it. And it's because, oh, I went to CVS and it was $30,000 and I couldn't afford that. And it's like, oh, we're supposed to use this X, Y, and Z other system. So the whole thesis of Impiricus was really simple. This kind two-way interaction that's happening between pharma companies and physicians. Can we create kind of an ethical third party between it so that there's less spam, it's more centered around patient value? And then secondly, can we use technology to create better user experiences for physicians and patients?

And so we do a variety of different things in this space. On one hand, on the pharma side, we actually own a bunch of different channels that pharma companies use to outreach to physicians. We then reduce the spam by 97%. And then we change the messaging so that it's clinically relevant and more actionable for patients. So that's where a large part of our business is. On the flip side, we also create free tools and resources for physicians. So we have this app called DocUpdate. Anyone can download it both on Android and iOS.

We do things like free e-prescribing if any physician wants to send a prescription for a patient without having to call in a pharmacy. We have a medical translator there. We also have concierge function where if you need a sample or need anything from a pharmacy or a company, then you can ask to do that. All of these things are, in my opinion, still version one. And so we're really excited about physicians like yourself and the many, many physicians who have used all these areas tools that are advising us and being part of our ecosystem. building the next versions over the next few months.

excited to just kind of build something that I think would be the next level of how physicians and patients are interacting with the pharma companies as well as the medicines that they're taking.

Alison Curfman (17:33.236)
Yeah, I think that it's very cool that you're providing so many resources for physicians. It kind of reminds me of when Doximity did the Doximity dialer thing and then like everyone started using it, especially during COVID. And it was like, man, we gotta like not show our phone numbers, but use our cell phones. But I have used your e-prescribing tool. I was like, I don't know if this is actually gonna work. Is it gonna go through? But it was so easy.

I cannot fathom calling a pharmacy ever again. Not that I did that that often in the past, but in the context of if you're not on an EMR that he prescribes, that's a really cool tool.

Osama Hashmi MD MPH (18:07.553)
Exactly.

Osama Hashmi MD MPH (18:17.678)
For sure. And it's funny because we are, it's HIPAA compliant. We're also SureScrip integrated. So we actually using the same rails that any EMR uses. It's just so funny that like, it is a service that we can provide for free. And then you look at all these EMRs that are charging millions and millions of dollars to physicians and to hospital systems. It's a, it's an unfortunate scenario where like for me, going back to kind of my original starting point, it's like, how do we actually improve the system and kind of put physicians and patients first and then.

detach all these other external factors, whether it's politics, whether it's profit motives from CEOs or private equity groups, how do we detach all of that and just kind of keep the physician and patient experience centric? That's been like the most exciting thing for me to be doing.

Alison Curfman (19:00.522)
I think there's a lot of value and power in gathering groups of physicians. I would guess that's part of your business model is if you can offer things that are valuable to physicians and you can get them to use your platform, you have a way to connect with and help amplify the voices or the needs of this group. mean, I think that one of the things that has been

very impactful in my career is organizing different communities of physicians or researchers or other things to kind of rally around a cause. And I think if you're trying to really connect physicians who really, we take an oath, we have an ethical standard, we care for patients first. And in the pharma industry, you've got a two-sided marketplace almost. You've got two sides of...

the industry that you need to connect with and support.

Osama Hashmi MD MPH (20:02.158)
Yeah, for sure. And traditionally, and it's funny because in pharma, there's a lot of really good people, but it's just, you know, how do we make sure that the physician is centric and owning that relationship versus the pharma company being centric and owning that relationship? That flipping is so important. And then kind of to the point that you're breaking, bringing up as well. I know with everything going on in the world, everything feels very negative, but I imagine a world where, you know, if we can have the right people in the center of the conversations who I feel like should be physicians, should be patients.

And we make it easier for physicians and patients to be part of that conversation, to own the rails, to own the organizations that actually are making these changes. I think it can create a much better world for everyone. And so there's a lot of different pieces to play. But I think that's been one of the biggest disservices has been for us as physicians, we spend so much time in medical school. We spend so much time caring for our patients. We spend so much time in our clinics thinking about our patients that we never learn the skills of kind

everything else that's affecting our patients and our lives. And if we could have ownership over those things and know that it's not that scary and it's possible for us to affect those changes, I think things could end up in a much better place.

Alison Curfman (21:07.892)
There's something coming across for me that I want to point out to people that are listening, which is that founders are very optimistic. know, people who work in this industry who are creating solutions, you mentioned like, oh, I know there's a lot of negativity around like what's going to happen. I see that in a lot of traditional environments. There's a lot of like fear and because they're really established organizations and what are we going to do? And

And I sense that a lot of physicians that spend a lot of time with the people around them who are again, more in a traditional environment, there can be a lot of negativity and fear about what's coming down the pipeline for medicine. But I find that spending a lot of time in venture and startups and with founders, there is like a lot of optimism and excitement and energy that I think that alone could be a reason to draw.

some of these people listening to come over here and like join in because it's positive and it's fun and it's aspirational.

Osama Hashmi MD MPH (22:12.526)
Yeah, for sure. And I think kind of going to my experiences in college, and even through medical school and residency, I was a little bit of a black sheep, didn't really have that many other physicians that I could point towards to say, Oh, help me build company and kind of tell me about what you're doing now, especially in the last few years, so many physicians have come up to that stage and have built, you know, multi billion dollar companies. And I think we're all willing to help out. And so nowadays, especially for other physicians,

I'm advising a bunch of companies. don't take any equity in it as an advisor or whatever, but I just think it's just so important for us to kind of build this very warm pool that everyone can come in. There's so much opportunity, there's so many things to be building, similar to kind of your mission, that we just need to kind of empower each other as much as possible.

Alison Curfman (22:55.101)
Yes, my vision is that this work that I'm doing, we're trying to really create a community of physicians that are interested in this work and can get the support they need to have different pathways to enter this system. I think it takes a very unique type of person for you to just not have a lot of mentors and still be like, I'm gonna start a company. Like that is...

very unusual that you took that pathway. It shows something about you. I think that the more resources and support we can put around people, the more it just becomes a lot easier and just, makes sense. Like you said, it's just a stepwise approach. It's not like you're creating this giant thing from nothing in a short amount of time. It's really being around.

the people that will challenge you to keep asking questions and to actually talk to the right people about your hypotheses and identify is this actually gonna make the difference that I think it's going to make. And then I think that some of the things that are just like this big black box for people who have spent their entire lives in medical training and practicing medicine, like how do you raise capital? How do you build technology? How do you affect policy?

Those are doable things. You just have to the right contacts and contacts. So have to have the right people and the right understanding. And I think that we have a very strong collective voice and can be very involved in these big changes that are coming to healthcare. I think it's gonna be pretty uncomfortable the next few years, because we're gonna have more change in five years than we had in the last 50.

Osama Hashmi MD MPH (24:48.364)
Yeah, 100%. And I think a big piece of this is thinking about, really importantly, like entrepreneurship and being involved in that change does not mean that you need to go kind of quit your job clinically and then go full time into starting a company and eat ramen noodles, especially as a physician. There's a lot of pathways to being involved, whether that's being involved in a company that's already there, whether it's finding co-founders, whether it's bootstrapping a services business that doesn't need any external capital, but you can slowly grow it over time. There's so many different flavors of entrepreneur.

entrepreneurship and being part of this change, that doesn't require kind of the traditional, when people think about startups, I'm going to leave everything and be off in the mountains for 80 hours a day trying to kind of hammer through a problem and raise venture capital and things like that.

Alison Curfman (25:31.954)
80 hours a day is really hard.

Osama Hashmi MD MPH (25:33.514)
Yeah, exactly. It's an average it's an average neurosurgery day, right?

Alison Curfman (25:39.12)
Yeah, right. I mean, I echo that. think that people worry that it's going to be too risky. I think the very easiest step people can take is to network, to learn more, and to maybe get on some advisory boards. It's so, so low of a risk. I mean, what's the worst that can happen? You won't like it. And I think that getting a taste of these things, really starts to build and you start to realize what, how many pathways there actually are.

So what other advice would you have for doctors that are interested in exploring this world, either as, well, I want to keep my clinical job and I'd like to get involved, or people who actually have an idea and they're like, I want to build something.

Osama Hashmi MD MPH (26:24.354)
Yeah, for sure. I think, like I said, the first is understanding that flavor of entrepreneurship that you would like and understanding the different flavors that exist. So talk to somebody who's a CMO at a startup, talk to somebody who has built their own company, talk to somebody who owns a bunch of urgent cares. These are all variations of entrepreneurship and kind of figure out for your life and your goals and what you're trying to do. are these what is the best flavor that fits your profile? The second thing would then be

identifying that problem and thinking about that problem and trying to solve it in some sort of small way. Obviously mentorship here helps and you we're very fortunate to have groups like Startup Physicians and other groups as well of people who are willing to help out and mentor. And then I think the last piece to your point is like, it's really around networking. So that's one thing that I always talk to physicians about that's very different from company building versus being a doctor, which is when you're a physician, you're kind of the buck stops with you.

The best doctor is the doctor that's going above and beyond every single day thinking about their patient, know, calling them two days after the surgery, making sure everything's okay. That's what we would want for our family members. That's what we're trying to provide for every single patient. In business, it's almost the exact opposite. The best businesses are businesses that can run without you ever being there or without you being involved. And it comes down to your ability to recruit a team. So the fact that you don't have skills is totally fine. Don't go and try to, you know, learn how to code or become a lawyer.

Find the best people who can do those things. Empower them. Give them your flavor of these problems. Get these people together. That's usually the place where I see a lot of physicians struggle is that building a great business, it's really around building a great team. versus being a great physician, It's really being the best for yourself individually that you can for your patients. So that's the last piece of advice is really think about that team and the network that you have around and try to automate things as much as possible and kind of get the best people who have been there done that to help you in terms of the business side of things.

Alison Curfman (28:14.802)
That's such great advice. And for those of you who are inspired by this story, we are developing a lot of different resources for physicians. We have a community where you can get ideas and support. We have a course for people who are interested in building an advisory practice. And then we have an incubator program for aspiring physician founders. So you can find information on all of those at startupphysicians.com. I would highly, highly recommend that you guys check out

Osama's products. So if you go to the App Store, look on Doc Update. That's the tool that you can e-prescribe and have a bunch of other free resources. And if anybody would like to connect with Osama after this, we will put his LinkedIn information in the show notes. So thank you so much for your time. This has been very useful information and inspiring. I think you have done incredible things with your career and I can't wait to see where you go next.

Osama Hashmi MD MPH (29:13.848)
Awesome, thank you for having me and looking forward to seeing all the amazing things that come out of Star physicians as well.

Alison Curfman (29:18.735)
All right, see you all next time.